Curse

halcyonbiscuit · Aug 08, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Hi, I normally play a W/R but I've been thinking of using illusionary weaponry for some extra power to my normal damage dealing build. I came up with this-
Attributes-9 swordsmanship, 12 illusion magic, 7 tactics, 7 strength.
|Illusionary weaponry|flurry|power attack|clumsiness|sprint|shield bash|healing signet|drunken blow| looking for suggestions.
I use a strength helm, with an icy dragon sword of enchanting and the end game exalted aegis.
note: I don't intend on using this build for farming.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 08, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

I'd drop Shield Bash, Drunken Blow, and Power Attack. Grab a Chakram for the +12 energy and take Conjure Phantasm. Considering your Illusion is at 12, it's a lot more damage than you'll deal with a 7-strength Power Attack and a 7-tactics Drunken Blow, and uses the same amount of energy but 1 less skill slot.

With a +20% enchanting mod IW lasts for 36 seconds. It recharges in 35. That means you can have it on indefinitely, which means you don't need any points in Swordsmanship since you're dealing no damage with your sword.

I suggest going 16 Tactics and 12 Illusion, taking a Deadly Riposte instead of Shield Bash, and possibly a cover enchant like Sympathetic Visage which will crush all melee enemies attacking whoever has this enchantment.

You'll also have 6 attribute points left over, which you can put into Inspiration for a tanking stance (Physical/Elemental Resistance) if you ever need to stop Flurry spamming and just take a lot of heat. Or you can take Energy Tap instead, which is what I do some of the time when I play a W/Me like this.

Go for a tactics (gladiator's, actually) helm, as well.

Finally, think about taking in Illusion of Weakness as well. At 12 Illusion, it's about as reliable a life buffer as Endure Pain. The initial sacrifice of life is something easily fixed with a 159-hp Healing Signet.

halcyonbiscuit · Aug 08, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

thanks a lot I'll try that

and 1 more thing I use a 19% enchant mod, how much is that worth?

jummeth · Aug 08, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

However, you'll find that a 16 Weapon mastery 9str 11tactics warrior will do more damage than IW.

IW is similar pressure to Touch Rangers without the throw dirt and whirling.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 08, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Hmm, I've never really done a direct comparison. But my IW W/Me will frequently take in Phantom Pain and Conjure Phantasm. That along with a Flurried IW is probably something like 48 dps with a Deep Wound for good measure. If it's against another War then he's also bleeding from the Deadly Riposte which spiked him for 70-something, meaning he's at max degen.

So, under certain circumstances, the damage dealt isn't really that much worse, and is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

jummeth · Aug 09, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

What I mean is, that warrior can be ignored like any other riposte warrior in PvP. Your IW will need re-casting so you can't be ploping on PP/CP everywhere.

Zeal weapon doesn't work because you don't make contact when IWing. Not to mention that IW can and will get shatter/drained. Riposte will work once then they will just switch off on you since the pressure is not dangerous enough.

Dahnel · Aug 09, 2006, 09:22 AM // 09:22

By running illusionary weaponry at 12 illusion magic you should be hitting for around 34 dmg a swing, IF your lucky enough to face a team to idiotic to not remove it. Also this means you cant build adrenaline and that your pretty much sacrificing most of your pressure potential (since you generally hit soft targets for alot more than 34 per hit).

IMO running Illusionary Weaponry on a warrior is overcomplicating things only to get a second rate result. Leave it to the mesmers.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 09, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

An IW Warrior is best run in PVE anyway; you guys are coming in here assuming it's a PVP discussion but no-one ever said it was. In PVE your IW isn't really going to get removed that often and certainly not as often as Wars tend to get blinded (in Factions anyway).

But even if we discuss PVP, there are enough advantages to IW that if it *doesn't* get removed (and in something like Alliance Battles it won't), you're dealing much more damage to other Warriors than usual and on top of that you're unaffected by blocks, evades, Weakness, and Blind. The IW War definitely has a place even in PVP, but yes mostly in AB and possibly TA. In GVG it makes much more sense to take in a more typical, proper Warrior build.

holden · Aug 09, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

But even if we discuss PVP, there are enough advantages to IW that if it *doesn't* get removed (and in something like Alliance Battles it won't), you're dealing much more damage to other Warriors than usual and on top of that you're unaffected by blocks, evades, Weakness, and Blind. The IW War definitely has a place even in PVP, but yes mostly in AB and possibly TA. In GVG it makes much more sense to take in a more typical, proper Warrior build.

i would like you to list out what advantages IW has over warrior skills for a primary warrior. i cannot think of one.

why are you, as a warrior primary, attacking other warriors in any form of pvp?

imo, ab is a joke with all the macho bullshit, warriors squaring off with one another, and ripostes(which will still get you're IW build). so yeah, IW warriors go get after it.

i would love to see your '48 dps IW' build.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 09, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Well for starters I am going to ask that you to be slightly less terse as it's bordering on rudeness; I am trying to suggest to the OP how to improve his IW build and people are coming in here listing the same-old "IW is inferior" rhetoric but if the guy wants to use IW might as well consider how to best use it. I'm sure enough people have simply dismissed his build with a "IW is for Mesmers" already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

i would like you to list out what advantages IW has over warrior skills for a primary warrior. i cannot think of one.

Well, you even quoted my mention of how IW deals damage despite blocking, evasion, Weakness, and Blindness. Those are most certainly advantages, and they are not insignificant. IW has disadvantages, sure, but it's not without its merits. Besides, it ignores armor so it is better against Warrior enemies than many other Warrior builds.

Quote:

why are you, as a warrior primary, attacking other warriors in any form of pvp?

If it's effective (and in AB it is, especially since a lot of the time Warriors will try to solo-cap or solo-defend an outpost) then why not do it? There's no law that says Warriors have to only attack professions with low AL.

Quote:

imo, ab is a joke with all the macho bullshit, warriors squaring off with one another, and ripostes(which will still get you're IW build). so yeah, IW warriors go get after it.

Well if you dislike AB that's fair enough but it doesn't diminish my arguments in favor of using IW in AB.

Quote:

i would love to see your '48 dps IW' build.

It's just adding up the skills that I listed:
32 from IW + Flurry (if it's 34, then it will be 50 damage, but I am forgetful because it has been a while since I have used it)
10 from Conjure Phantasm
6 from Phantom Pain
It adds up to 48 dmg per sec (16 of it being from degen, so it's not technically damage but it serves the same purpose and there's no point in arguing semantics)

Finally, I want to remind folks that this is indeed the Campfire and not the Gladiator forum, which means that we're discussing PVE builds as opposed to PVP. So PVP-based criticisms aren't even appropriate. They're valid enough but I can't say they ought to be the basis for dismissing a build since they're simply not 100% applicable.

holden · Aug 09, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

Well for starters I am going to ask that you to be slightly less terse as it's bordering on rudeness; I am trying to suggest to the OP how to improve his IW build and people are coming in here listing the same-old "IW is inferior" rhetoric when they're hardly being helpful.

]

please forgive my rudeness

if blind, weakness, evasion etc is all you got....iw is an enchantment that will be removed. then you got nothing. no damage whatsoever. except for conjure and PP, which even at 16 illusion are not scaring anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

It's just adding up the skills that I listed:
32 from IW + Flurry (if it's 34, then it will be 50 damage, but I am forgetful because it has been a while since I have used it)
10 from Conjure Phantasm
6 from Phantom Pain
It adds up to 48 dmg per sec (16 of it being from degen, so it's not technically damage but it serves the same purpose and there's no point in arguing semantics)

yes, no point.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 09, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

IW's glaring and obvious flaw is it's an enchantment, meaning it can be removed rendering a build based around it nearly useless. I'm sure everyone who is familiar with the skill at all will concede that point ^_^.

With that in mind, I did point out that in PVE and in AB (and to an extent TA), enchantments do not get removed much. In AB they're almost *never* removed, and in PVE it's area-specific so you just have to know what you're going to run into. I do use this build on occasion to mix things up, and if it didn't do relatively well in PVE/AB I'd probably also be urging the OP to, maybe play around with IW, but ultimately consider a different kind of W/Me to work on.

In fact, in PVE and AB, the *biggest* weakness of the IW build isn't that IW can get removed, (and by the way you can always cover it with Visage if you've learned the hard way that there is an enchantment remover monster or whatever running about ^_^), but that the build is so unbelievably energy-intensive. By the time you've cast IW, Phantasm, and Phantom Pain, you've used 35 energy. Add to that the fact that you still might want to spam Flurry, and you're basically forcing yourself to go the 45-energy-Warrior route of full Gladiator armor, a mesmer offhand, and a +5 energy Sword. It makes the build very much a "one-shot" where you have to recover some energy in-between brawls. In something like PVE, and even more so AB, battles are one-shots. In GVG and TA they are not, and that is another reason that the W/Me IW build would not do well in those PVP formats.